Ineligible Player

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Ineligible Player

Post  Greenmanwalking on Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:41 am

Taken from the EDP website;

Dereham’s title challenge has received a blow after they were ordered to replay their game against Diss having fielded an ineligible player in the original fixture.
The Magpies won the match, on February 2, 2-0, but Scott Roberts – who came on as a substitute – should have been suspended after being sent off in a reserve game at Brightlingsea on January 12.

The Thurlow Nunn League have ordered that the game be expunged from the records and replayed on Saturday, May 4.

Dereham’s general secretary, Ray Bayles, said there had been confusion over Roberts’ dismissal at Brightlingsea and the referee’s report had not been received prior to the Diss game, so the club had been unable to clarify the matter. He said the club had checked Roberts’ availability with Norfolk FA but without the referee’s report they had no record of a suspension.

Bayles added: “We fully accept that he should have been suspended and that we made an error in playing him.”


It might be me being thick but i need these questions to be answered for me,also i just don't see how it is fair to make Diss play again as they did no wrong.
What happend to the good old fashioned way of treating these situations,3 points deducted.

1.If he should of been suspended and they knew he should of been why did they play him?
2.Why has it got to be replayed?
3.Are Dereham admitting responsibility for the 'mistake'?
4.Or will the spineless officers at the Norfolk FA admit it is a mistake with them being fully to blame?

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  sammy on Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:15 am

Greenmanwalking wrote:Taken from the EDP website;

Dereham’s title challenge has received a blow after they were ordered to replay their game against Diss having fielded an ineligible player in the original fixture.
The Magpies won the match, on February 2, 2-0, but Scott Roberts – who came on as a substitute – should have been suspended after being sent off in a reserve game at Brightlingsea on January 12.

The Thurlow Nunn League have ordered that the game be expunged from the records and replayed on Saturday, May 4.

Dereham’s general secretary, Ray Bayles, said there had been confusion over Roberts’ dismissal at Brightlingsea and the referee’s report had not been received prior to the Diss game, so the club had been unable to clarify the matter. He said the club had checked Roberts’ availability with Norfolk FA but without the referee’s report they had no record of a suspension.

Bayles added: “We fully accept that he should have been suspended and that we made an error in playing him.”


It might be me being thick but i need these questions to be answered for me,also i just don't see how it is fair to make Diss play again as they did no wrong.
What happend to the good old fashioned way of treating these situations,3 points deducted.

1.If he should of been suspended and they knew he should of been why did they play him?
2.Why has it got to be replayed?
3.Are Dereham admitting responsibility for the 'mistake'?
4.Or will the spineless officers at the Norfolk FA admit it is a mistake with them being fully to blame?

This reminds me of the recent "cock up " the Suffolk F.A did with Felixstowe in their Suffolk Premier Cup match, if memory serves me correctly it was down to the Referee putting his "paperwork " in late, I have always thought they had a time scale to submit reports / bookings to the Counites, if a Club is late they get a fine from their respective Leagues or County in Cup Comps, but I very much doubt if the Counties "fine " Referees for their paperwork being late, if they got it in on time so the County could confirm the bookings with Clubs then situations like this would not arise Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  GMac on Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:29 am

The FA have opened a real can of worms with this one. Either the player was suspended on the date of the Diss game or he wasn't. If Dereham checked and were told there was no record of a suspension then I would assume they were justified in playing him.
He was sent off on 12/1/13. Why had the suspension still not been sorted out by 2/2/13? As metioned in the previous post this is not the first time that clubs have been caught out by 'late' reports and paperwork from match officials.

The replaying of the game is unfair on other teams at the top and bottom of the league. Diss could end up with three points they otherwise did not have and Dereham could get back the 3 points but drastically increase their goal difference. Looking at the current table this could be crucial if Wisbech catch them. The game is also being played after everybody else has finished which gives both clubs an advantage over their respective rivals if they need a result.

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  Backfour on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:13 am

Looks like the ''suits'' have put themselves in the 'brown and slimey' again! Initially, the MIB (ref) was at fault with his late paperwork to which the NFA could not act on. I thought that it was generally accepted (correct me if i am wrong) that any player sent off etc., would have their suspension to be active within 3 weeks of the incident. The replaying of the game on the said date is nonsensical if all other games are finished. What's the point Embarassed

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  Evergreen on Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:08 am

Nobodys told Mitoo yet, their table still includes the original result.
21 days after the sending off and the FA still didn't know about it. Thats the refs fault.
Dereham checked with the FA who said they had no record of it. Thats not Derehams fault. If they have no record of something, how can they enforce it?
I'm sure Norfolk FA governance department are happy with their decision.
They obviously want to make sure the title race goes on as long as possible

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  spongebob on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:15 am

The point at issue here is not that the County FA new nothing about any suspension, it's that Dereham DID and still played the player. Unless appealed, a sending off carries a suspension, effective 21 days after the day in which the player was dismissed. Every Club secretary in the country should know this.
I'm afraid to say that the guilty party in this are Dereham, irrespective of the lateness of the ref's report.

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  sammy on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:44 pm

spongebob wrote:The point at issue here is not that the County FA new nothing about any suspension, it's that Dereham DID and still played the player. Unless appealed, a sending off carries a suspension, effective 21 days after the day in which the player was dismissed. Every Club secretary in the country should know this.
I'm afraid to say that the guilty party in this are Dereham, irrespective of the lateness of the ref's report.

I totally disagree with this statement !!! reason i have known it to happen that sometimes a Referee has "second thoughts " about some bookings and do not put them through , what should happen is

The Ref's report of bookings "must " be registered with the County F.A within 72 hours of the match, the County then must confirm the suspension with the club in question within 72 hours of them recieved the Refs report, then the Club and County agree the match/ matches as to which the player will be suspended, if injured or unavailable or match is postponed the suspension just keeps rolling until such times it can be served.

The County F.A officials are PAID so are the REF's, Club Secretaries are NOT NOT NOT paid, seems to me as already stated this occurrence id down to the REF for late submission of paperwork and therefore should be fined Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  dellwood on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:51 pm

If a player is sent off there are a number of witness's including his clubs official. This is not something that you can"forget" about or hope the the league, the FA or the ref does. There are times when a booking may be missed but when a player leaves the field ..well thats different. I would say that this is Dereham's fault 100% but my money is still on them finishing second !

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  Spenny on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:26 pm

I can't really say too much as I might get in trouble!

Here's a link to the EDP article about the situation: http://bit.ly/157W2tB

When Matt Henman said "We feel we've been punished enough", my irony-meter went off the scale! Unless Dereham fail to win the game, they have not been "punished". Will entry to the game be free? Will all the beer and burgers sold at what is effectively an extra source of revenue be free? If they do win the League title, they will most probably get presented with the trophy the day the game is played, potentially drawing a larger crowd. In what universe is that being "punished"!

The more I think about it, the less happy I am with the decision, but as I say, I've said too much already!

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  Greenmanwalking on Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:56 am

sammy wrote:
I totally disagree with this statement !!! reason i have known it to happen that sometimes a Referee has "second thoughts " about some bookings and do not put them through , what should happen is

The Ref's report of bookings "must " be registered with the County F.A within 72 hours of the match, the County then must confirm the suspension with the club in question within 72 hours of them received the Refs report, then the Club and County agree the match/ matches as to which the player will be suspended, if injured or unavailable or match is postponed the suspension just keeps rolling until such times it can be served.

The County F.A officials are PAID so are the REF's, Club Secretaries are NOT NOT NOT paid, seems to me as already stated this occurrence id down to the REF for late submission of paperwork and therefore should be fined Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

So the refs are cheating then basically.
Also am i correct in thinking that the secretary will receive some sort of paperwork from the ref after a game which has score,bookings and sending offs on it.
As for what should happen, if the player is injured or unavailable who in their right mind would admit that to the FA's concerned so that they can keep rolling the suspension until it can be served.

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  sammy on Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:18 am

Greenmanwalking wrote:
sammy wrote:
I totally disagree with this statement !!! reason i have known it to happen that sometimes a Referee has "second thoughts " about some bookings and do not put them through , what should happen is

The Ref's report of bookings "must " be registered with the County F.A within 72 hours of the match, the County then must confirm the suspension with the club in question within 72 hours of them received the Refs report, then the Club and County agree the match/ matches as to which the player will be suspended, if injured or unavailable or match is postponed the suspension just keeps rolling until such times it can be served.

The County F.A officials are PAID so are the REF's, Club Secretaries are NOT NOT NOT paid, seems to me as already stated this occurrence id down to the REF for late submission of paperwork and therefore should be fined Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

So the refs are cheating then basically.
Also am i correct in thinking that the secretary will receive some sort of paperwork from the ref after a game which has score,bookings and sending offs on it.
As for what should happen, if the player is injured or unavailable who in their right mind would admit that to the FA's concerned so that they can keep rolling the suspension until it can be served.

Greenman walking

I am not saying Referee's are cheating , only i have known where a player has been "yellow carded " during a match and the Ref has decided not to put the booking through , hence my " second thoughts ".
As we know if a player gets a "red card " or 5 yellow cards, he is then suspended 21 days after the offence, if the match is postponed the suspension rolls forward to the next match, in the period up to the 21 days the player can play, but what if he gets injured, does his suspension take place whilst he is unfit to play, as you seem more learned of these rules perhaps you can confirm what happens.
And one other point surley the County and the Referee are at fault in this matter as the player was cautioned on 12/1/13 and nothing was confirmed until 2/2/13 ( think something is slightly amiss there )
Anyway happy days it gives us something to talk about on this forum, one thing is for sure the Norfolk County F.A will not take any blame as with all County F.A they are never wrong its always the Club and the unpaid Committees who run Clubs are always wrong in the eyes of the Counties even if a matter is proved a Club is in the right Very Happy Very Happy

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  Greenmanwalking on Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:42 am

Don't matter if player injured,the suspension runs for the amount of games not days.
So you could start a 3 match ban Boxing day for example and still be suspended March if you club have only played a couple of games due to postponements for weather and such.
As you say the County FA's don't admit to any wrong doing on their part...it's always somebody else's fault,as Felixstowe found out.

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  welshwatcher on Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:13 pm

When the Seasiders were thrown out of the Suffolk Premier Cup and the appeal against expulsion was rejected the club were told it is up to them to record when players are booked and for the player concerned to tell the club he has been booked.
Spongebob is correct, three weeks from activating booking or sending off is start date of match ban. There is no 'perhaps he won't send it in'. In the Seasiders case it was three weeks before the referee sent it in. I believe he received a 'suspension' for his misadministration the club were thrown out as a result because they should have told the county the player had been booked!
The chairman of the appeal committee was drafted in from 'Norfolk' so there was no bias, but that's another story. His view in the end was that rules are rules and 'out you go'
Spenny's post above is spot on, Dereham are on a win, win, win all the way through misadministration completely of their making.

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Re: Ineligible Player

Post  spongebob on Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:25 am

OK, here's a proposal that somebody might like to bring to the League AGM in any future "ineligiblegate" affair.

The rule stays as it is now, which is:

You win the game and the 3 points are expunged, the game is replayed at the offending club's expense (Don't forget that Diss still have a chance of beating Dereham).

You draw the game and the non offending club is offered the chance to replay the game at the offending club's expense.

You lose the game and there is a fine for fielding an ineligible player.

I would propose that this rule stays exactly as it is with the addition of the loss of 1 point to the offending club in the first instance. The loss of two points for the second instance and the loss of three points for the third and any subsequent instances.

You could also argue that the replayed match should be held at the ground of the non offending club so that the offending club does not make money from gate receipts, bar and burgers etc. etc.

If anybody has any thoughts about this , or any other proposals, you need your Club's Secretary to write to the ECL with a proposal in plenty of time for inclusion at the League AGM

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